with-agents

The Pragmatic Engineer — selected conversations

Stop being skeptical about AI for development with Charity Majors

Eighteen curated conversations on agent workflows, design, harnesses, and software quality

A manually reviewed selection of Pragmatic Engineer conversations with Maggie Appleton, Matt Pocock, Tibo Sottiaux, Martin Fowler, Dex Horthy, Boris Cherny, Mario Zechner and Armin Ronacher, Laura Tacho, Hillel Wayne, Mitchell Hashimoto, Kent Beck, Peter Steinberger, Grady Booch, Steve Yegge, DHH, Dax Raad, Charity Majors, and Addy Osmani. Topics include design prototyping, reusable skills, agent workflows, context and harness design, TDD and verification, architecture, measurement, accountability, and open-source governance. Practitioner observations, product-team claims, and forecasts are not controlled findings.

The Pragmatic Engineer 17 of 18
In this collection Browse 18 summaries 17 of 18

Charity Majors argues that teams should judge coding agents by better production outcomes, not more generated code. In conversation with Gergely Orosz, the Honeycomb co-founder asks what evidence would make unread code safe to ship. Her answer combines stronger behavioral checks, visibility into the running system, and a person who owns the result 06:49–09:32(opens in a new tab), 26:55–33:02(opens in a new tab), 53:01–57:02(opens in a new tab).

Key Points Covered

  • Team outcomes outrank individual activity: Majors says teams remain the meaningful unit and calls speed an immature definition of improvement; Orosz's Spotify example illustrates that change volume alone says nothing about quality or customer value 06:49–09:32(opens in a new tab).
  • Replace blanket skepticism with an acceptance question: Majors predicts that teams will eventually ship generated code they have not read and argues that the useful question is what evidence and repeated comparison would make that safe, not whether it should ever happen 11:21–13:25(opens in a new tab).
  • Operations and QA offer a model for production assurance: Majors argues that code contains only part of the system's truth, while operations and QA have long focused on validating actual behavior. Production should be treated as a development stage rather than what happens after development 19:20–21:11(opens in a new tab).
  • Unread generated code needs stronger checks: Majors says that if nobody reads the code, the team must rebuild that confidence elsewhere. She highlights conformance testing: checking that newly generated code still behaves within the boundaries of the previous version. Because model output can vary, she argues for constraining where and how AI operates rather than abandoning predictable behavior 26:55–30:00(opens in a new tab).
  • Some AI applications should fail the suitability test: After Orosz describes a resume scorer returning materially different scores for the same input, Majors says AI is not appropriate for every use case. She frames Honeycomb's bar as better outcomes and says the person invoking an agent loop owns its result 28:57–33:02(opens in a new tab).
  • Generated communication can transfer cost to colleagues: Majors proposes not sending material the sender has not read, especially when reviewing it would take the recipient longer than generating it took. AI can deepen thought or bypass it; core work should favor the former 34:55–37:54(opens in a new tab).
  • Enthusiasts and operators may be observing different real effects: Majors says enthusiasts see useful rewrites and toil reduction while on-call engineers see incidents, weaker mental models, and cleanup. The episode's company stories and reliability claims are reported examples, not evidence of a general causal effect 37:54–44:09(opens in a new tab).
  • Observability closes the intent-to-production loop: Majors argues that telemetry for first-party code should be a product decision and that instrumentation should let engineers compare intended behavior with production behavior as part of normal development 53:01–57:02(opens in a new tab).
  • Managers still own sense-making and teams can run bounded experiments: Majors expects engineering leaders to regain enough hands-on experience to understand agent-mediated delivery while preserving management's context-giving role. For AI fatigue and uncertain norms, she recommends bottom-up experiments that report what worked, failed, and was learned 1:10:23–1:13:22(opens in a new tab), 1:19:02–1:21:09(opens in a new tab).

Full video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC8T1OlgYi0(opens in a new tab)

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